Saturday, August 13, 2016
A couple weeks ago I was visiting over at UNZ.com and happened to read the article 'Virtue And The Streets: A Dummy's Guide To Police Work' by ever-the-cop-apologist Fred Reed.
There were several negative comments about the article and about Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs) in general, and I decided to add one of my own to the collection. Checking back later, I found that someone going by the name UTU had complimented me on my comment and then afterwards had gotten into a back-and-forth argument / debate with two fellas -- SteveRogers42 and JoeF -- who were obviously involved in "law enforcement" (uniformed trough-feeders, as William Grigg refers to them).
I left a comment for UTU, telling him that in my opinion he had made mincemeat out of the cops in their debate. And that's when the fun started...
JoeF couldn't resist responding to my comment to UTU and, ladies and gentlemen, that was the starting gun and... we're off!
I decided to turn this debate into a blog bit by posting the comments below, and you can make your own determination about who crossed the finish line first. I'll remain in "classic black" and put the LEOs in "porcine blue":
STEPHEN T. McCARTHY (August 1, 2016)
There are some good comments above, and the nature of my own comment will indicate quite clearly which of them I have in mind when evaluating them positively.
Fred Reed is a very talented, clever, and humorous writer, but I’m beginning to lose my patience with his (too-frequent now with his advancing age) outdated viewpoints.
99% OF COPS GIVE THE REST A BAD NAME.
(That stat may not be 100% accurate, but it’s close enough.)
It’s always been bad with the cops — it’s always been an “Us Against Them”, or “Blue Against Every Other Color” attitude — but it’s much worse today than ever before. I’m as “blue collar” as it gets; as “conservative” as it gets; I’m a gun owner who grew up in an exceptionally racially diverse area of Los Angeles; I despise Communist front organizations like BLM, et al. And I have known many cops on a personal, friendly level, which helps to explain my hatred of most cops today.
My Grandfather was a police reserve officer, and as a teenager (14-17) in the 1970s, I was a high-ranking member of my local Police Explorer program. That’s where I first got to know cops very well in a relaxed, personal way. They took us on campouts, introduced me to underage drinking and porno movies. Yeah, they’re strictly law and order guys through and through! Many of them were blind-drunk and driving 4 hours after their shifts ended.
The reason they’re even worse today than yesteryear is that most cops today have come out of the military where the only skills they learn are how to break things and kill people. Then you give these steroid-raging psychopaths a badge and turn them loose on society where they can let their little power trips play out with little to no oversight. “Break Things And Kill People” isn’t exactly a mindset that’s compatible with the motto “To Protect And Serve”. LEO wasn’t always an automatic professional step from post-military goon.
I hereby sentence in-the-dark and out-to-lunch Fred Reed to 3 years of daily reading at the websites “Police Misconduct”, “Police State USA”, and William Grigg’s “Pro Libertate”. Then we’ll see if he still holds the same opinion of these Thugs-In-Blue that he does today.
STMcC (August 8, 2016)
UTU, surely you know it plenty well enough without me even having to state it, but I will state it nonetheless: You thoroughly crushed your opponents SteveRogers42 and Joef here — both of whom are LEO apologists with blinders on. (Probably cops themselves or somehow related to or associated with LEOs.)
At any rate, you did a good job providing evidence / examples to support your arguments. Hopefully more and more people will regularly visit the websites I previously mentioned (“Police Misconduct”, “Police State USA”, and William Grigg’s “Pro Libertate”) so as not to be fooled by propagandist characters such as the ones you crushed here.
If I were the benevolent dictator of the USA, a rule I would immediately establish is that no former military personnel would be allowed to hold any LEO job. As I also stated earlier, the “Break Things And Kill People” mindset is NOT compatible with the motto “To Protect And Serve” the general populace. I’m convinced that the BIGGEST problems we have with cops today stems from the fact that the vast majority of them have come with a military background (and so many of them raging on ‘roids).
JoeF (August 8, 2016)
He is detached from reality, and would probably make a great crime victim so I wouldn’t recommend him leaving his bubble fantasy world. He never answers any questions, he just repeats his talking points. I guess you do not understand the concept of statistical outliers, which always exist.
I am not making up things as I go along like you guys, and I am not going to let your silly freedom fighter fantasies supersede the reality of over a half century of life experience. You guys are sheltered and obviously have no street smarts. I have dealt with real violence on a personal level within arms reach (not from a 100 yards away, nor sparring in some amateur hick town mcdojo school); This is not school yard fights, its a lot more serious than that; I know people from my neighborhood who were killed or maimed, or hospitalized, (stabbed and shot), because their attackers really wanted to hurt you and play for keeps. If you cannot understand that, thats fine, but do not expect people who live in the real world to go along with your infantile pseudo freedom fighter fantasies.
I know that you prefer to use arrogance instead of real knowledge/experience when making statements, but maybe its time for people like you to grow up.
STMcC (August 8, 2016)
First of all, my comment wasn’t directed to you, but your LEO-related ego couldn’t resist responding with 200 words of assumptions about me.
>>… I guess you do not understand the concept of statistical outliers, which always exist.
Well, you got me there. Clearly you are a man possessing far greater intellectual capacity than I have, as this never even occurred to me. “Statistical outliers”… ooohh, fancy!
I don’t even know what a “freedom fighter fantasy” is, but if you’d read my first post, you’d know that my views are based on a LOT of first-hand experiences. I also have over half a century of life experiences under my belt. Born and raised in the hick town of Los Angeles, and have only the street smarts I acquired while living in racially-diverse lower economic areas. I’ve lost count of how many people I grew up with who are dead now due to drugs and crime. (And my BEST friend was killed by a car thief in 1989.)
And I hold all the Social Justice Warrior opinions one would expect from a guy who is a strict Constitutionalist, Bible-studying follower of Jesus Christ who has about 20 years of Security experience.
This just goes to show you how completely out of touch you guys are with the Everyman’s opinion of cops . Yeah, buddy, even the vast majority of us law-abiding, conservative, senior citizens distrust and dislike you boys in blue. An intelligent person would acknowledge that reality and then contemplate and seriously, objectively analyze the reasons for it. But a person of lesser intelligence would just continue whitewashing that fact and continue defending the LEOs while making dozens of false assumptions about those with critical opinions.
SteveRogers42 (August 8, 2016)
Whew! Just wanted to stagger up from under the burden of being “crushed” to send this out. The irony is heavy with this one:
All rugged individualists and cop-haters run to the police when they need help. The cognitive dissonance in their minds must be “crushing”.
STMcC (August 8, 2016)
Oh, hey, that one story changes everything! Good job. Everything I’ve personally experienced, read, studied, and heard from trusted others for several decades was just wiped out by that one article!
The last thing I’d do is call a cop. I’m a staunchly pro-2nd Amendment guy who exercises that right. Speaking solely for myself, I won’t be needing or wanting your help. Besides, you’d probably just show up and shoot my dog anyway.
JoeF (August 9, 2016)
Did not include me??? Hmmm, you mentioned my pseudonymic handle in your post????
Now by using a simple concept from statistics as ‘statistical outlier’ is not trying to be fancy as much as just seeking objective truth. Your type seems unable to examen things objectively on a case by case basis. That is because you are completely consumed with resentment, and a desire to condemn your political enemies. And since you claim to actually have lived in an area that had real consequences in regards to criminal violence, there is even less of an excuse for you to contradict reality.
If you stated that there are inherent problems with policing like summons quotas and the abuse of stop & seize, I can agree. If you stated that some cops are aggressive egocentrics who abuse their authority (that even some of their peers do not like to work with), again I can agree that such individuals exist. However you want the rest of us to accept that you are clairvoyant & omniscient, and can determine, from your localized living location, that all 400,000 cops throughout the nation, whom you never met before, are all as you say they are. Sorry but that is either arrogant, hysterical, stupid, or insane.
And that is the answer to utu’s question of why people do not wake up & agree with him – - because what he says sounds like he is a wack job to the majority of people who are capable rationally discerning distinctions. Instead anti cop types wants the rest of us to accept their ranting emotional outbursts as well reasoned factual content. And if they do not get 100% compliant agreement, they get upset and name call (I must be honest, I do not remember you doing it, but utu cannot contain himself).
And your right I do not prefer self professed social warriors, who are just a bunch of panderers wanting to do the politically correct thing in order to feel good about themselves (at the expense of the rest of us who work hard and pay our taxes). And why am I concerned with this? Because you may have forgotten when urban homicide rate was ubiquitous, but I remember those days clearly. And your methods will just bring those days back again. And all the blacks that you social warriors claim to love so much (to pander & feel good about yourselves) will be the majority of those victims. But after all, why should you care, ideology prevails over all other considerations in the social warrior world view. [And if I am wrong about any of this I will stand corrected]
STMcC (August 9, 2016)
This is the last time I intend to respond to either of you LEOs, as it’s clear you are incapable of “LISTENING” beyond your own assumptions and worldviews. I have intellectually honest people waiting on replies from me at other sites and via Email while I’m wasting valuable time here in a fruitless effort to get you to see any color other than “Blue”.
>>… Hmmm, you mentioned my pseudonymic handle in your post?
Your “pseudonymic handle”? Oh, you mean your pseudonym? Your pen name? Your nickname?
I never write “metropolis” for seven cents because I can get the same price for “city.” I never write “policeman” because I can get the same money for “cop.”
~ Mark Twain
Some of what has still to be learned by the West may appear to be almost absurdly simple and elementary, but it is important nonetheless. For example, never to use a long word where a short one will serve equally well, never to write with the idea of proving one’s own erudition but rather in order to ensure that one’s ideas shall be made as understandable to the reader as possible.
~ Douglas Hyde
(from his book “Dedication And Leadership”)
>>… Now by using a simple concept from statistics as ‘statistical outlier’ is not trying to be fancy as much as just seeking objective truth.
A point I have clearly alluded to several times in my posts here is that decent, honest, “To Protect And Serve” law enforcement officers (I’ll call them “Sheriff Richard Macks”) are the statistical outliers. It has become increasingly obvious to the vast, vast majority of decent, honest, law-abiding citizens (another point I’ve made repeatedly) over the last few decades that the vast majority of cops are “militarized”, thuggish, fascistic revenue collectors for the state who entered law enforcement after leaving the military because they were considered prime applicants for that work and to appease their aggressive natures and thirst for adventure. (NOT because they are great lovers of mankind, law and order, and relish the idea of providing a service to the common citizen.)
You can deny this until your face is as blue as your uniform but it won’t change the fact that it’s a fact. I base this view on the opinions of 98% of the civilians I know (none of which have criminal backgrounds). I mentioned my two decades of Security work. 98% of all the security officers I’ve worked with distrust and dislike cops as much as I do. But this is a meaningless fact, right? It’s the prevailing outlook of civilians and security officers, but it couldn’t POSSIBLY have anything to do with the majority of their LEO interactions and the LEO interactions of their families, friends and neighbors, right? When most of the “good citizens” dislike cops, the problem is with the cops. It ain’t even laundromat science. You are deep in denial, and obviously nothing I say here is going to alter your professional tunnel vision.
>>… Your type … is … completely consumed with resentment, and a desire to condemn your political enemies.
I’ve already cautioned you against making grand personal assumptions about me but the authoritarian LEO mindset can’t seem to help it. What is this resentment I have? What has any of this to do with “political enemies” I might have? I’m a Constitutionalist, and despite your second attempt to lump me in with them, my anti-SJW credentials are AT LEAST as numerous and vigorous as yours. I am not a “type”, but all of my years working around and with cops at the police station and on countless ride-alongs showed me that, to police officers, there are essentially two “types”: The Blue and everything else.
On your behalf, however, I can applaud the fact that you acknowledge inherent problems with summons quotas and stop and seize policing concepts. Now if we could only get you to wake up and admit to the many other serious ongoing issues in so-called law enforcement.
>>… Because you may have forgotten when urban homicide rate was ubiquitous, but I remember those days clearly. And your methods will just bring those days back again. And all the blacks that you social warriors claim to love so much (to pander & feel good about yourselves) will be the majority of those victims.
One of the misconceptions you are laboring under is an overestimation of the value of police forces. I have scholarly studies that show a majority of armed citizens cut crime far more than police forces do. But I’m not going to waste any more time here by digging them out and copying them here.
And if I ever needed an object lesson in how useless police forces are when TSHTF Big Time, I got it during the “Rodney King Riots” when the cops literally disappeared from all the streets of Los Angeles for three days. Understandably, they were bunkered down in their own homes protecting their own families. The rioting Blacks, interestingly, did NOT venture outside of their own neighborhoods, knowing that there are one or many more firearms in at least 50% of the homes of White people. Due to numbers, firepower and superior strategizing, if there ever is a full-on race war in this country, it will end surprisingly (to some) quickly and without the need of LEOs.
I’ll leave you with these websites. I do not believe one whit that you could objectively, diligently, with intellectual honesty read these posts for an entire year and still maintain your belief that bad cops are the “statistical outlier”. And bear in mind that these are accounts of “bad cops caught” and can by no means be considered a comprehensive view of the total number of bad cops currently employed to “protect and serve” the general populace.
Off duty: End of report.
JoeF (August 10, 2016)
Thanks for your comment but all this unidimensional anti cop obsession talk is getting boring, along with the arrogance pretending to be omniscience. Have a good day sir and enjoy trolling with your other friends. I will not waste anymore of your time with reason because you are obviously completely controlled by your negative emotions and resentments.
And that's how easy it is to reason with cops. They always listen well because they're always interested in hearing what the public, whom they protect and serve, thinks of the job they're doing. This was a positive interaction I had with law enforcement officers which has gone a long way toward convincing me that my former opinion of them was misguided and in need of reevaluation.
~ Stephen T. McCarthy
Posted by Stephen T. McCarthy at 11:45 AM
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