[From the STMcC archive; March 2, 2005]
‘JOY IN THE JOURNEY: 10 Years Of Greatest Hits’, a Michael Card compilation compact disc, was released in 1994, one of the best years of my life.
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I recall hearing the song 'WHY?' for the first time in my (then) girlfriend's car, just as we were entering the eastbound I-10 onramp at Sepulveda Boulevard. On April 6th, less than two months after the CD’s release, while alone in an apartment in a grungy area of Los Angeles, I was quite unexpectedly driven to my knees and Baptized with The Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ, my Holy King and Savior. I didn't exactly know what had happened to me or why, I only knew that I was suddenly changed somehow.
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| 3704 Military Ave. #3, Los Angeles, California - Meeting place for Jesus Christ and Stephen T. McCarthy. |
Obviously, that was a special year for this
reviewer, and when I heard Michael Card sing, "WHY
DID THEY NAIL HIS FEET AND HANDS WHEN HIS LOVE WOULD HAVE HELD HIM THERE?"
it perfectly described the Fire I felt inside me, and the Love that I knew
Jesus has for us!
.
I asked my girlfriend to replay ‘WHY?’ several
times. For me, that remains one of the greatest lines ever written about my
Savior King. And although I don't play it often, when I do, 'JOY IN THE
JOURNEY' always takes me back to that magical year of rebirth.
Michael Card does not have a particularly great voice,
but it adequately conveys the obviously heartfelt convictions of his nicely
crafted Gospel songs. What makes Card special is his lyrics; he is Christian
Rock's premier wordsmith, able to create songs around deep theological
concepts. He overreaches at times ("...the
universe fell from His Fingertips."; "...He
sent His only Son and so became a Holy Embryo."), but that's the
cost of creating fresh, unique expressions and attempting to translate The Mystery into song. There may be an occasional misstep,
but there's no doggerel verse here – just Christian poetry sung with sincerity,
and sometimes backed by powerful, searing "electric" passion ('Known By The Scars', 'Scandalon',
'So Many Books', and 'Know
You In The Now’.)
I'm rarely impressed by the lyrics of most songwriters,
but consider these lines:
Though Your Words contained The Plan
They just could not understand
That Your most awesome work was done
Through the frailty of Your Son
The Hand that is breaking the bread
Soon will be broken
He cannot love more and will not love less
We in our weakness believed we were strong
He became helpless to show we were wrong
For the power of paradox opens your eyes
And blinds those who say they can see
That is the mystery, more than you can see
Give up your pondering and fall down on your knees
No fiction as fantastic and wild
A mother made by her own Child
To hear with my heart, to see with my soul
To be guided by a Hand I cannot hold [*]
To trust in a way that I cannot see
That's what faith must be
There is a joy in the journey
There's a Light we can love on the way
There is a wonder and wildness to life
And freedom for those who obey
To be so completely guilty, given over to despair
To look into your Judge's face and see a Savior there
Soon will be broken
He cannot love more and will not love less
We in our weakness believed we were strong
He became helpless to show we were wrong
For the power of paradox opens your eyes
And blinds those who say they can see
That is the mystery, more than you can see
Give up your pondering and fall down on your knees
No fiction as fantastic and wild
A mother made by her own Child
To hear with my heart, to see with my soul
To be guided by a Hand I cannot hold [*]
To trust in a way that I cannot see
That's what faith must be
There is a joy in the journey
There's a Light we can love on the way
There is a wonder and wildness to life
And freedom for those who obey
To be so completely guilty, given over to despair
To look into your Judge's face and see a Savior there
Now THAT'S what I call
"writing!" Most of these tracks are enthusiastic and catchy. If they
played this stuffs on Christian radio, I'd tune in once in awhile.
[CHRISTmas in July!]
Michael Card's, 'JOY IN THE JOURNEY' puts joy in
my journey, and it calls to mind my personal "Summer Of Love". And when “this
world” douses my spirit, 'JOY IN THE JOURNEY' can fan my embers into a Divine
Flame again. Brothers and Sisters, I think you'll like it too.
Beer: He’Brew (“The Chosen
Beer”) ‘Hop Manna I.P.A.’
Music: Michael Card (of course!)
Link:
[Try Meditation, Ragamuffin!]
.
~
Stephen T. McCarthy
POSTSCRIPT: [*] FAE, did that line seem familiar? You once
wrote a nearly identical sentence in an Email to me (channel Card often?)
YE OLDE
COMMENT POLICY: All comments, pro and con, are welcome. However, ad hominem
attacks and disrespectful epithets will not be tolerated (read: "posted").
After all, this isn’t Amazon.com,
so I don’t have to put up with that kind of bovine excrement.
.
THANK YOU! Those tears you see are the good kind; you know the ones when you are so moved by The Spirit, that they flow freely.
ReplyDeleteYou do know I'm tryin', don't you?
"Tryin'"?
DeleteYour soul is already up there in Heaven, just like Muddy is up there in that open apartment window.
[I'll get that "news" sent to you tonight after work.]
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
We had the Scandillon CD a while back... haven't been doing the CC thing for a while...Laurie was more a SC Chapman fan...Of course, the point is the message. My favorite was a Rich Mullins tribute cd..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awesome_God:_A_Tribute_to_Rich_Mullins ...Jacob and Two Women still gets me.
ReplyDeleteHmmm... That's new territory for me. When it comes to Christian music, I mostly focus on MAH (Mahalia) and MAL (Malibooz) and all that nuttin' in-between.
Delete~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
>I was quite unexpectedly driven to my knees and Baptized with The Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ, my Holy King and Savior. I didn't exactly know what had happened to me or why, I only knew that I was suddenly changed somehow.
ReplyDeleteYou have mentioned that historic event before, but never provided any details, or did I miss that post? I guess that's something that is quite personal, and rare. How many people really have life-changing events like that? Many claim to but it's usually a bunch of B.S. April 1994 was over 19 years ago so whatever it was that drove you to your knees must have really got your attention. You must have to be in a "receptive" state of mind to hear what God is saying; maybe hitting rock bottom is what it takes for some people. Is that where you were, or was this something that happened out of the blue?
As a kid, I was driven to my knees once when I was hit in the head with a hockey puck. I thought I saw God but it was just stars and bananas. And once I thought a ghost walked right through me in the early a.m. at some old hotel near the B.C Place Stadium. I doubt that that really happened though. I had several Heinekens (but not that many) while I was at a club on Water St. watching Albert Collins and the Icebreakers tearin' it up. (still have the ticket stub somewhere). Neither event changed me at all, except I learned to have an even greater appreciation for the blues...and the Canucks, I suppose.
SigTuque
Part 1:
DeleteROCKY RACCOON II ~
Hey, hidee-ho, neighbor!
>>... You have mentioned that historic event before, but never provided any details, or did I miss that post?
No, you're right, I've mentioned it but never really provided any details. To be honest, as I mentioned once before, I think it was because I was screwing up so badly that Jesus went to such an extreme measure.
Some people would probably say, "Oh, look at me! I must be special because Jesus visited me and impacted my life." In my case, that's total B.S. I was screwing up so badly that Jesus, it seems, felt He needed to intervene. I'm glad He did, but the fact that it was necessary is certainly not a feather in my cap.
There's a good deal more to the story as well. The month and day were highly significant. And I believe there was some "past life" stuffs that came into play.
For about a year, I have been telling FAE all the background junk in Emails, because she wanted to know about it. It's not something I think would interest most people, so I haven't publicly shared the details. (I still owe FAE the final two installments of the story, and I'm sure she's tired of waiting for them. I don't blame her - I would be Too, Sig.)
>>... maybe hitting rock bottom is what it takes for some people.
I would say I was close to rock bottom, but not in the usual meaning of that expression. Most people think of it as being strung out on drugs, living on the street, or deep into alcoholism and begging for change in order to scrape up enough to buy a bottle of Thunderbird. (I never had to beg to get my Thunderbird.)
I would say I was at rock bottom in terms of my disgust with this world and my fellow man. I'd reached a point where I kinda hated everyone. I guess I was like Susan Shannon... only without the fake devotion to Jesus Christ.
>>... As a kid, I was driven to my knees once when I was hit in the head with a hockey puck.
Ha!-Ha! The same thing happened to me, except it wasn't a hockey puck; it was a baseball. And I was already down - sitting on the grass just beyond third base. So my noggin', once it got plunked, didn't have so far to fall to reach the grass and the worms. (That little "third base mishap" might actually 'splain a few things about me.)
Continued Below...
Part 2:
Delete>>... I thought I saw God but it was just stars and bananas.
Well, ya know, according to Darwin, some Grape Apes WERE like "gods" to us. And bananas are like manna to the apes, so... [Not exactly sure where I'm going with this... but it was probably leading up to the word "bananamanna".]
>>... And once I thought a ghost walked right through me in the early a.m. at some old hotel near the B.C Place Stadium. I doubt that that really happened though.
I never heard of the BC Place Stadium before. Googled it. Very cool looking!
You know, many other folks have also claimed to have had a ghost walk through them. I thought it might have happened to me one night also, in a motel in Virginia City, NV. Only I was lying in bed, and I thought maybe "something" went through my physical body.
Later I decided I was just freaking out and letting my imagination get the best of me, because I KNEW I was staying in a motel room that had a reputation for being haunted and I was delirious from lack of sleep.
For the record, that was BEFORE I knew what I know now. I would NEVER screw with that crap today (i.e., deliberately staying in a supposedly haunted room, inviting a supernatural occurrence) - it's serious business and not to be fooled with.
>>... watching Albert Collins and the Icebreakers tearin' it up. (still have the ticket stub somewhere).
Ahh, a man after my own heart!
Hey, be watching for a new F-FFF twice-per-month music-related feature starting on August 1st. The first installment won't include the Blues, but I do have a couple Blues tunes lined up for future installments.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
What was the difference between the April 5th 1994 STM and the April 7th 1994 STM? Was change noticeable to those around you or were you more at peace with the world?
ReplyDeleteSIGneyFreedman
Ha!-Ha! Very clever M*A*S*H reference, SIGney!
ReplyDeleteActually, I would say BOTH of those statements were correct. People DID notice a change in me, BECAUSE I was more at peace with the world.
I really NEED to get back to my old practice of daily meditation sessions.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Inspiring, to say the least.
ReplyDelete>I really NEED to get back to my old practice of daily meditation sessions.
The benefits of "thinking of nothing" and experiencing the present for just a few minutes a day are immeasurable, yet so few understand this; the majority of time is spent thinking of the past and future.
Of all the studying I've done on the subject, I think Dr. Joseph Parent nailed it in four short pages in a book called "Zen Golf" (a book about more than golf).
In a chapter called "You Are Not Your Thoughts", he explains how awareness and the mind are synonymous; the goal is to identify with awareness instead of its contents (thoughts). This enables you to be more passive and allows you to choose how to react to your own thoughts, rather to just impulsively react. Yada-yada, works for me.
Maharishi Mahesh SIGi
KWAI CHANG SIG II ~
DeleteThe deepest water is most still, Grasshopper.
It is on the surface where the waves crush
the shit outta stuffs.
If someone were to send me those 4 pages from 'Zen Golf', I would NOT mark the envelope "Return To Sender".
Man, meditation... what a huge topic that is. I have read so many books on it, and still own a couple of the best I encountered. But it is in the DOING that one progresses by leaps and bounds. And usually, the meditator isn't even aware for some time just what is being accomplished.
Learning to effectively meditate was indeed the most difficult thing I ever attempted in my life. It takes a long time for most people, and progress is so slow that it isn't even discerned for quite awhile.
Despite having had a quite a number of "supernatural" experiences, I always said (and genuinely believed) that I was a poor meditator. I still tend to think that but...
Three or four weeks ago, for the first time in years, I went to my room to try meditating for 30 minutes. I doubted I could even quiet my mind, so many years having passed since I tried. But I went straight to some of my old favorite "techniques" or "mantras", and within about five minutes I felt myself slipping into that peaceful state of mind. Then my body started moving slowly in circles (always a sign that The Spirit was moving in me).
No fireworks, no angelic visions or profound insights, but when I finally ended the session and got up, I was still in a semi-altered state and so deeply relaxed that I was in a kind of walking-daze for a good 20 to 25 minutes afterwards.
Hmmm... Maybe I was always a better meditator than I ever thought I was.
"We have fallen asleep in God's embrace,
Having a nightmare that we are elsewhere."
For many years THAT has been my personal spiritual slogan. I didn't invent it. It came to my mind long ago, while I was in a meditative state.
Now, if you scroll back to the top of this comment section, and reread what I said to FarAwayEyes, you'll see that I was alluding to my "personal spiritual slogan". I was saying the same thing just using different words. Do I really believe that? You bet I do!
It's beliefs like that which make me a "Christian Outlaw".
I'm either in Heaven already, or destined for the Jail in the Cosmic Basement.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Sorry I'm late to the party. My sickness is coming back and I've been ridiculously tired again. Just woke up from my umpteenth nap. Grah. Maybe I need a little more Michael Card in my life. I actually like what I'm hearing, which is quite the feat, because I don't like Christian music. 99% of it, as played on Christian radio, is cliched, has terrible lyrics, and all of them sound alike.
ReplyDeleteYou know, by saying that, it almost feels like one of those lame "pass this on if you love Jesus, don't pass this on if you want to burn in hell" e-mails. I'm not opposed to the idea of Christian music and I'd happily listen to GOOD Christian music, but I just can't ever turn my radio to the Christian station and hear anything I like. And I don't know where to even begin looking for the GOOD music.
It kind of annoys me, then, when I meet the type of Christians that only listen to that single station, not because it's good, but because it has music they're "supposed" to be listening to. Somehow listening to any other kind of rock is evil.
So, since this blog likes to talk about beer and religion, and I do enjoy picking your brain, I'm going to continue a-pickin'.
Beer:
Got any good summer beers to recommend? I'd love to try something new that's not too 'heavy' for these 90-100 degree days. I'll tell you, those porters are good but in this kind of weather they go down like mud.
Religion:
What are your thoughts on glossolalia, aka speaking in tongues? Ever seen it/experienced it? It's mentioned a few times in the good book, and I ask because my reference above to the group of folks that only listened to the Christian radio stations came from some Pentecostals I once knew. They invited me to their church once, and it was... odd. During communion each person was grabbed by the head, slain in the spirit with a firm "IN THE NAME OF JEEEZUS," and they'd collapse on the floor, roll around like they were having a seizure, and speak in tongues. Loudly. All of them. All 500 of them. Except for me of course. They made me go up there, and after they grabbed my head and screamed the name of the Lord in my face, I felt nothing. I felt a little awkward, if anything. The preacher saw I didn't feel anything, so he took my hand and just had me lie on the ground next to all of these seizing bodies. So there I was, laying flat on my back in a Pentecostal church, surrounded by 500 people flopping around like fish and babbling incoherently, and I realized... I don't ever want to come back here.
It felt so theatrical. Like it was expected of them. Like they were each trying to outdo one another. God seemingly had nothing to do with it. I always had the idea that miracles like this were not common, and yet here were 500 people that experienced this every single week.
There were other things that were "off" about that place, but the speaking in tongues was the most off-putting. Let me just say that I've felt God in a lot of places--even in a Buddhist monastery in Ayutthaya, Thailand--but I didn't feel Him in that church.
Beer AND Religion:
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - incorrectly attributed to Benjamin Franklin. His quote actually deals with wine. But it's still a good quote, and I stand by it. Don't show it to those Pentecostal folks, though. Drinkin's pure evil, bruddah.
OLD SOUL ~
DeleteHey, Brother, sorry to hear you're not feeling well again. (I'll pray about it.)
Your comment made me laugh out loud. Even these knuckleheads I live with heard me laughing and wanted to know what was so funny.
Bryan, tonight, I gotta get my blog bit written for posting tomorrow morning (Aug. 1st). FAE and I are starting an ongoing 'BATTLE OF THE BANDS' series. If I have time later tonight (kinda doubtful), I'll return here and provide A's to your Q's. (I know those apostrophes are incorrect, but it doesn't look right without 'em.)
But if I can't back here tonight (kinda likely), I PROMISE to return tomorrow night with A's 4 Q's.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Part 1:
DeleteThe greatest compliment that was ever paid me was when one asked me what I thought, and attended to my answer.
~ Henry David Thoreau
‘Life Without Principle’; page 1
4-B OLD SOUL ~
First, the excuse for my lateness and broken promise...
Last night, after I got home from work, I responded to some comments, then Brother Nappy, his Chinee peeps and I settled down to watch the 1960 Romantic-Comedy-Musical ‘BELLS ARE RINGING’ starring Judy Holliday (an actress I once had a crush on, long after her death and before I learned some personal stuffs about her via biography that turned me off ...and ...oh, hell! OK, I STILL have a crush on her, damn-it!)
I’d already seen this movie three times before, but if you tell anyone that, I’ll lose my ‘Man Card’ f’sure ...and I’ll have to kill you.
After the movie, I came to my blog to reply to your comment (as promised), but by mistake I brought up the latest blog bit instead of this one. When I saw your more recent comment, I decided to respond to it FIRST. By the time I got done, it was too late and I was too tired to come here and reply to THIS comment, as I’d promised.
OK, that’s my excuse and I’m sticking with it. Now... “on to the theatre!”
>>... Maybe I need a little more Michael Card in my life. I actually like what I'm hearing, which is quite the feat, because I don't like Christian music. 99% of it, as played on Christian radio, is cliched, has terrible lyrics, and all of them sound alike. ... I'm not opposed to the idea of Christian music and I'd happily listen to GOOD Christian music, but I just can't ever turn my radio to the Christian station and hear anything I like.
Man, I so TOTALLY agree with that! There are a couple of Christian music radio stations here in Shittycity, Airheadzona, but for the most part it’s just a bunch of whiney crap that embarrasses me. I have often wondered why there isn’t a ton of GREAT Christian music. After all, if the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Jesus can’t inspire a believing songwriter/performer, what could? The story of Yeshua should be fuel for countless passionate songs and musical scores. Instead, it’s mostly just this embarrassingly pathetic, whiney stuffs like... “I thank you Love, for the love that I am, and for the arms to hug my Brothers and Sisters with... Waa-Waa-Waa!” Sheesh! Gag me with the Cross of Jeeezus!
Michael Card is a good lyricist, and his music contains some power. Mostly though, when it comes to Christian music (other than Christmas standards, which I’ve always loved), I prefer the Old School Gospel stuffs. MAHALIA JACKSON totally kicks ass! Jubilant Sykes (whom I knew in Boys Chorus in junior high school) has also recorded some powerful stuffs.
I really dig Joel Chernoff’s ‘THE RESTORATION OF ISRAEL’ album. And Bob Dylan’s Christian recordings (especially the first one – ‘SLOW TRAIN COMING’ – minus the atrocious song ‘I Believe In You’) are filled with passion and butt-kicking strength.
Continued Below...
Part 2:
DeleteDid you ever see the Steve Martin movie ‘LEAP OF FAITH’? It’s not a great movie, but it’s a pretty good one – good enough that I purchased the DVD years ago. Well, the Gospel soundtrack for that movie is tremendous! (And, yeah, I own the CD soundtrack as well as the DVD movie.)
Somewhat surprisingly, Glen Campbell has recorded a couple of A-list Gospel tracks. I love ‘I KNEW JESUS (BEFORE HE WAS A STAR)’, and I think his version of ‘OH, HAPPY DAY’ is even better than the excellent Edwin Hawkins original.
Other than those, I find contemporary Christian music shockingly lacking in inspiration and power. A blogging friend of mine once recommended a more modern-day Christian Rock group to me called THIRD DAY. I listened to the couple of songs of theirs that she posted and I thought they showed some fire. But I never got around to looking any deeper into their catalogue.
>>... Got any good summer beers to recommend?
On my BOTB blog bit, C.W. Martin suggested I suggest to you Leinenkugel's ‘Canoe Paddler’. I’ve never had that one, but since C.W. called you a “Godless Communist”, you might want to ignore his beer recommendation.
Well, BBBB, I want to warn you to take any brew recommendations from me with at least several grains of salt. I know what I like, but someone who doesn’t share my taste in beer might think I haven’t a clue.
I’m not sure you and I have similar tastes in beer. I know you generally like Porters and Stouts, and I generally don’t. (The only Porter I’ve ever really enjoyed was Stone’s ‘Smoked Porter’.) I’ve gotten the impression that you also prefer Lagers to Pale Ales and I.P.A.s, and the latter are right in my wheelhouse (along with Ambers and Reds).
You seem to like ‘Fat Tire’ and ‘Stella Artois’, and to me, there’s not enough “there” there. So... my recommendations might not be worth one cent more than what you’re paying for them, but... we DID agree on ‘Flashback’, so there’s some hope for us yet.
I like my beer the way I like my coffee: I only want “coffee-flavored” coffee (no cinnamon, no hazlenut, no vanilla, no Irish crème, etc.) And I like strictly “beer-flavored” beer. Meaning, I’m not much into “Summer Ales”, where they tend to add flavors like lemon, orange, honey, banana, berries, etc. I do like a “citrusy” beer (e.g., Odell’s I.P.A.) but only when the citrus flavor is a result of the brewing process and not a deliberate flavor addition.
Therefore, although I have tried a number of brews labeled as “Summer” ales, I have liked very, very few. I always want some complexity, even in a lighter, crisper “Session” beer.
I recently discovered Firestone ‘Union Jack I.P.A.’ and liked it so much that I gave their Summer release - ‘Solace’ – a wheat beer, a chance. It was... OK. (It seems the only wheat beer I really love is Lagunitas ‘Little Sumpin’ Ale’.)
Do you have a ‘Total Wine & More’ in your area? If so, they sell hundreds and hundreds of beers by the bottle, so you can do some experimenting while avoiding the expense of buying an entire six-pack of something you might find you don’t like.
I know you’re not a ‘Sierra Nevada’ fan, and I’m not either, for the most part. (I tried their ‘Hoptimum’ once and found it so overly-hopped and unbalanced as to be nearly undrinkable.) But I think the only brew labeled a “Summer” beer that I like quite a bit is Sierra Nevada’s ‘Summerfest’. It’s light and crisp and has a very unique aftertaste. In fact, I’d say it’s the after-aftertaste that appeals most to me in ‘Summerfest’. Not sure if it’s a wheat beer, but it tastes like that to me. Almost the archetype “Mowing The Lawn Beer” to me.
Deschutes (in Oregon) makes a Summer ale called ‘Twilight’, and it’s alright. But I think that, to me (considering I’m generally a hop-forward guy who likes plenty of I.B.U.s), the best “Summer” beer might actually be Deschutes ‘Mirror Pond’ Pale Ale (even though it’s not labeled “Summer” and is available all year long).
Continued Below...
Part 3:
DeleteBrother Nappy and I are very different in some ways, but we nearly always agree on movies and beer. We are both of the opinion that Deschutes ‘Mirror Pond’ Pale Ale is probably the perfect, anytime, go-to beer. It’s only 5% ABV (meaning technically a “Session” beer) and it’s much lighter than something like ‘Sucks’, ‘Big Sky IPA’ or ‘Hop Knot’, but it still exhibits some great complexity.
You know how sometimes you can be in a beer mood, but not just ANY beer mood? Like last night, when I was typing my comment to you on the other blog bit, I felt like hearing some Jazz, so I put on my Ralph Marterie CD (which I like a lot), but after a few tracks I took that CD out. I was in a “Jazz” mood, but apparently not THAT particular Jazz mood. So then I tried the CD ‘Raise Your Hand’ by Poncho Sanchez and... ahhhhh... THAT was the ticket!
Well, Nappy and I recognize that ANYTIME we’re in a beer mood, Deschutes ‘MIRROR POND’ Pale Ale ALWAYS goes down well. If we’re in a beer mood at all, ‘Mirror Pond’ will never miss the mark; whereas I can be in a beer mood but find other beers I actually like better than ‘Mirror Pond’ to be just “too” something... heavy, hoppy, bitter, malty... too SOMETHING. But ‘Mirror Pond’ seems just right for EVERY beer mood (especially if the ‘Mirror Pond’ is REALLY cold).
A few weeks ago, I told Nappy that although on my ‘Top Ten Favorite Beers’ list, Deschutes ‘Mirror Pond’ Pale Ale would probably come in at the bottom (#10), if the Beer Police said I could only drink ONE beer for the rest of my life, ‘Mirror Pond’ might well be my choice, because no matter what sort of beer mood I’m in, ‘Mirror Pond’ always seems to hit the spot.
So, when you ask me to recommend a “Summer” beer, I think of ‘Mirror Pond’. Although it’s not labeled a “Summer” seasonal, and although it’s not as light as most “Summer” beers, and although it doesn’t contain any additional fruity flavors like lemon, orange, banana, berry, I think it’s the ideal “anytime” beer. It’s light, low ABV, not upper range in IBU, but there’s plenty enough “there” there.
So... I guess my favorite “Summer” beer is ‘Mirror Pond’ (although you might want to give Sierra Nevada ‘Summerfest’ a try too, if you haven’t already).
Continued Below...
Part 4:
Delete>>... What are your thoughts on glossolalia, aka speaking in tongues? Ever seen it/experienced it? It's mentioned a few times in the good book... So there I was, laying flat on my back in a Pentecostal church, surrounded by 500 people flopping around like fish and babbling incoherently, and I realized... I don't ever want to come back here.
Man, I love you! (I mean that strictly in a “John Wayne way”.) You can be so funny, Bryan! That made me laugh out loud the first time I read it, and it made me laugh out loud again, the second time I read it. (And I don’t mean “LOL”; I mean, LITERALLY, “laugh out loud”!)
My buddy Br’er Marc also asked me my opinion about “speaking in tongues” about two years ago. My opinion hasn’t changed over the years:
Although I have never seen it or experienced it, I DO believe it’s sometimes an authentic expression of God’s Spirit. As you know, it’s mentioned by Saint Paul in 1st Corinthians, chapter 14. If Paul acknowledges it, certainly I will not say it’s nonsense. But... Paul does not seem to place much emphasis on it, and he even says it’s useless and maybe even detrimental if it becomes a cacophony of disorder:
“If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.”
With apologies (not really) to women, another clue to the authenticity of “speaking in tongues” is the gender. Notice that Paul says “him”. And keep in mind what he also says about women speaking out in church generally.
If you saw men AND WOMEN speaking in tongues (which I’m sure you did), and if it was basically the entire congregation (which you indicated it was), then A: the pastor was disregarding Saint Paul’s admonition about order in the church, and B: much of it was either a put-on or a demonic deception because women were involved in the event as well as the men.
Are we going to take the Words of The Holy Bible seriously, or are we going to pick and choose what to believe and follow? There is, at times, room for questioning and deeper investigation, but when it comes to “speaking in tongues”, I think The Biblical view is pretty cut and dried.
So... my guess is that most (if not all) of the people you saw “speaking in tongues” were faking it; were trying to “keep up with the Saint Joneses”. I applaud your refusal to go along with the “sheeple” for appearances sake. (But then I would expect nothing less of you.)
When The Spirit of God is REALLY upon someone, they will KNOW IT... (and chances are a Christian minister will not be present).
“Yabba-Dabba-Doo!”
~ Fred Flintstone (speaking in tongues)
>>... Don't show it to those Pentecostal folks, though. Drinkin's pure evil, bruddah.
I know. But that ain’t why I do it...
Well, they say this place is evil
But that ain't why I stay
~ Warren Zevon
‘Join Me In L.A.’
Great comment. Sorry my reply was so late.
~ D-FensDogg
‘Loyal American Underground’
Part 1
DeleteBryan:
I’ve been waiting patiently for STMc to reply to your questions here because I had something I wanted to tell you.
I’m not a beer drinker so nothing to tell you there, but on the subject of ‘speaking in tongues’, I do have something to say. First, I want to say that I’m still a little reluctant to publish this, but I do feel somewhat compelled to do it. Maybe it’s just for the sake of me in that I need to hear this story again. I’m not sure, but you can decide.
Anyway…as a child I was raised as a Methodist, in a church that was very stiff-necked, almost puritanical. I lived in a large city, my daddy was a cop and my mother went back to work full-time once I started school. Around the time I turned twelve my parents started sending me down to relatives ‘on the farm’ for the summers, so I wouldn’t get into trouble. These relatives were the ‘prayer meetin’ type. Not sure if they were Pentecostals of what but some of those prayer meetings were pretty fantastic, especially to someone who was raised on some pretty tight fire and brimstone, as I had been. There were tambourines, snakes and folks leaping up and shouting and falling to the floor, rolling around talking gibberish, while the rest of the congregation stood around in rapt adoration. At twelve and thirteen, I was just sure old Beelzebub was about to walk through the doors at any moment.
By the experience you related, it sounds pretty similar to what you experienced while attending ‘church’ with your friends. This type of activity seems to be what most people think of as ‘talking in tongues’. Well, the experience I want to tell you about it quite different.
Part 2
DeleteWhile I was living in Florida, my family and I became involved with a family of Laotian refugees. These people had escaped from Laos into Thailand and after several years in a ‘camp’ they were finally able to come to the US, through some extended family. (As I later learned these people are all related, or at least that is the way the present themselves to the US government, in an effort to help bring each other to the States.) Anyway, in an effort to help them in our community we were trying to learn their language.
On day I got a phone call from one of the kids (who were becoming pretty proficient in English through the TV) that their mother was really sick and needed some help. I went over with some other people to see what we could do. At the house the mother, Somphone, (sp?) was pretty distressed and obviously in pain, she was trying to describe her symptoms to us and nobody was able to understand. There was an older woman there, who was trying to help out, but our Laotian wasn’t strong enough for such an intricate conversation. This guy was trying to get the older woman to calm down and speak slowly when she lapsed into speaking French (as you probably know, most of SE Asia was originally a French colony and the older people speak fluent French). The man she was talking to didn’t miss a beat and began conversing with her in French. They were able to discuss complex medical terms and delicate symptoms. When an understanding was reached he told the older woman who related to Somphone (in Lao), what was decided and who would be talking her to the doctor and act as interpreter (I was fortunate enough to be able to do that).
Part 3
DeleteWhen we left, I said to this guy; “I didn’t know you were fluent in French.”
He gave me a funny look and said “I’m not. I had two years of HS French about twenty years ago. Other than the basic textbook phrases, I don’t remember a thing, but when that woman started speaking French, suddenly I understood her and when I started talking back to her, nobody was more surprised than me.”
I laughed and started teasing him, basically asking just what kind of a dumb blonde did he think I was. He stopped me and told me that in all sincerely he was telling me the truth. He then went on to say something that I have never forgotten. He told me that he believed what he had experienced, and what I witnessed, was the ‘gift of tongues’. He said that when we went to the house our desires were righteous in wanting to help these people with no specific gain for ourselves, and that when we weren’t able to converse with them in their own language, one was provided that was mutually acceptable to get the message through.
When I asked him if he could tell me something in French, now, he said, nothing more than the simple textbook phrases just about everybody remembers from typical HS classes. It was completely gone, now that it was no longer needed. I knew this guy well and have no reason to doubt him. I don’t believe he ever told that story to others nor did he try to capitalize on it in any way.
In the end I took Somphone to the doctor and her medical issues were easily solved. I know that is not the fantastical sort of thing that most people talk about when mentioning ‘speaking in tongues’. But for me, that is exactly what I believe, I witnesses. I have no doubt than when a sincere effort is being made to do the right thing and help someone, the Lord will provide a way. Miracles are not always big bright shiny occurrences, but rather the little things that bring people together in a true sense of Christian community.
I hope you come back here and have the opportunity to see this. I’m not sure exactly why I’m telling you, but I had a few days to talk myself out of posting this and although I tried, I don’t seem to be able to NOT tell of this little experience. It seems to me that one of us needs to hear it for some reason.
FAE ~
DeleteThat's an absolutely fascinating story. (You know that goes into the book, don't you? Yes, yes, you know which book I'm referring to.)
Your story immediately reminded me of ACTS, Chapter 2, Verses 1 through 28.
Great stuffs, Sistah Golden Hair.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
@Stephen:
DeleteMostly though, when it comes to Christian music... I prefer the Old School Gospel stuffs.
Such fire in that music. Such passion. I always thought it'd be fun to attend one of those black church services where they sing old school gospel like their lungs are on fire. Those folks really know how to praise. Like, growing up old school Catholic (and having such a fondness for music), I always remember feeling so disappointed that all of the church songs were these very low key, monotone, boring songs where everyone just kind of mumbled in unison. I could almost picture God watching from above, giving the sarcastic slow clap as my neighbor grumbles "Krisiborn, Krisirin" beneath his breath over and over (or "Christ is born, Christ is risen" to you and I).
So... beer. Great minds really do drink alike! Brandon actually introduced me to Mirror Pond last week, so that's what we'd really been drinking. So imagine seeing this here today. I agree, it's a great beer. I had a few of them and didn't get tired of drinking it, even down to the last beer. I know exactly what you mean in that regard, and if I was stranded on an island with ol' Gilligan yakking like a dumbass and I only had one beer I could bring with me, I damn well might pick that one.
I am looking forward to trying out that Summerfest, though, which I have not as of yet tried.
To clear up my beer tastes...
I know you generally like Porters and Stouts, and I generally don’t.
I like a good Porter (sometimes), but Stouts aren't really my thing. Too heavy and often too coffee flavored. I want a beer, not a milkshake. Brandon loves those, though, so if you see a lot of Stouts being mentioned on the blog - that's all him. When I buy a multipack and there's a Stout or two in there... 9 out of 10 times I'll just save them for him to drink.
(I know talking like this is "beer sacrilege" to some but I remember the first time I tried Guinness after hearing all the hype behind it and thinking, man, this is like drinking molasses...)
I’ve gotten the impression that you also prefer Lagers to Pale Ales and I.P.A.s, and the latter are right in my wheelhouse (along with Ambers and Reds).
Lagers are okay for thirst quenching, but when I really want a good flavorful beer I love a Pale Ale. Ambers and Reds are great too. The only beer I don't care for much is an I.P.A. that's overly bitter. Not big on bitter beers.
You seem to like ‘Fat Tire’ and ‘Stella Artois’, and to me, there’s not enough “there” there.
Absolutely 100% agreed. Those beers are my "there" beers. They just kind of exist to be consumed without much thought. It's usually there as a compromise with the wife, who prefers those kind of beers in the house if she feels like having one. On a scale of one to five I'd give each of those about two and a half - I wouldn't kick it out of bed, and I'll drink it without complaining, but you won't find me going out of my way to get it. It's just kinda "there."
Part Two:
DeleteAnd I like strictly “beer-flavored” beer. Meaning, I’m not much into “Summer Ales”...
I'm not much for a true summer ale either. I guess my question should have been rephrased - what's a "lighter" type of beer with good flavor that you might recommend for drinking in summer weather? Mirror Pond, of course, being right up my alley in that regard. You know, something light enough that I can drink a few on a hot day back to back without feeling like I'm eating a meal, and flavorful enough that I don't feel like I'm slamming back some water-flavored Coors Lights like a college fratboy at a pool party.
Do you have a ‘Total Wine & More’ in your area? If so, they sell hundreds and hundreds of beers by the bottle, so you can do some experimenting while avoiding the expense of buying an entire six-pack of something you might find you don’t like.
We have a new liquor store here (not Total Wine) that just started doing something similar, and I really need to jump on board. As you can tell by my summer beer question, I've been itching to find some good new brews, but it's hard to justify buying a 6 pack just to try 1 beer.
Man, I love you! (I mean that strictly in a “John Wayne way”.)
Right back at ya, pard-ner.
FAE:
DeleteThat was an amazing story, and I don't doubt a word you've said. I think stories like this are important to hear, more so than the stories of the times it didn't happen. Like at that Pentecostal church I spoke of, with some old acquaintances (this was once upon a time ago, and we definitely are no longer friends). I have no doubt that it's all fake, the stuff I saw. All of it. It's insulting, frankly, to the stories like your own. Speaking in tongues is a miracle. A gift. And these people think this miracle strikes every single one of them, every single week, like some faithful TV show, for no reason whatsoever other than the fact that they've been "chosen" to do this.
Also, let me just say that I'd always interpreted speaking in tongues as being able to understand and communicate with someone who didn't know your own language, not just spouting gibberish words while your body seizes uncontrollably on the floor. To me (and I could be wrong) I don't see the sense in that. Why God would subject someone to something that almost sounds borderline painful. I remember a girl got up afterwards and showed off a bruise on her leg because God had "compelled her so much" that she went flopping into the side of a pew. That doesn't sound loving. That sounds cruel.
Anyway, that whole church was a group of people just wanting to outdo each other. They even did donations 'out loud,' so it was a bidding war to see who could donate the most to God. The highest 'bidder' was $1,000 on the day I attended. And everyone cheered for how "great" he was. Yes, that's right, church is now in session, all praise be to... Bill?
Part 1:
Delete4-B OLD SOUL ~
Hey, all this Brew Yak has inspired me to post another blog bit ‘bout beer! It’s something I thought about composing over a month ago but just blew it off. However, you’ve inspired me to write it after all. I’ve been working on it for more than an hour. I was planning to post it tonight and then post THIS reply to your comment in the comment section of the new blog bit (i.e., move this conversation to the new brewpub).
But I realize now I won’t get this new brewpub built in time, and I want to be in bed by 11:00 or so (behind on sleep). So, I’m just replying here instead.
>>... I always thought it'd be fun to attend one of those black church services where they sing old school gospel like their lungs are on fire. Those folks really know how to praise.
A Black woman my Brother used to work with used to take him to her church, which it seems was very much like that. I think he said that the very first time he was there, he was the only White guy in the church. (He shoulda asked, “Can ya sing a Pat Boone tune?” :-)
>>... So... beer. Great minds really do drink alike! Brandon actually introduced me to Mirror Pond last week, so that's what we'd really been drinking.
Ha! Sooooo strange! What were the odds? (Too bad I spent all that time describing a beer you had already tasted but... Of course, I knew that there was a good chance you were already familiar with ‘Mirror Pond’ anyway. But I certainly wouldn’t have guessed that your familiarity with it was only a week old.)
>>... I am looking forward to trying out that Summerfest, though, which I have not as of yet tried.
I’m really not sure what you’ll think of it. I like it a little more than Nappy does, but he doesn’t mind it. He thinks it’s a little “too vinegar-y” for his tastes. I think of it as having a kind of “grainy, slightly wheat-like aftertaste” that appeals to me. Nowhere near approaching my Top Ten Beers list – or even Top 25 or 30. But of all the beers I’ve had that are actually labeled for “Summer”, I think that’s the one I find most crisp and refreshing. (I noticed that Sierra Nevada DOES include illustrations of wheat stalks on the packaging, but nowhere have I seen it written that wheat is used in the brewing.)
Anyway, you’ll have to let me know what you think of it. Most “Summer” brews are pretty light, and this is no exception, but I feel it’s got a somewhat unique aftertaste, whereas a lot of other “Summer” beers just seem like watered-down Pale Ales or fruity lagers. (In all seriousness, you really might want to try that ‘Canoe Paddler’ that CW Martin recommended also. I’ve never had it, but if you like it, I’d give it a try also.)
>>... Stouts aren't really my thing. Too heavy and often too coffee flavored.
Oh, OK, gotcha. Yeah, if all that was available was Porters and Stouts, I’d definitely go the Porter route also. (Just say “No!” to coffee-flavored beer, sez I.) And I’m in total agreement about Guinness – I NEVER DID like it! Way back in the day, before the Craft Brewing explosion took place here, some of my friends really liked Guinness. You know, it was “imported”, and truthfully, most of what was available and affordable was the mass-produced adjunct beers, so there was less to choose from.
Becks, Heineken, Lowenbrau, and some poseurs like Moosehead and Molson, etc. That’s what you drank if you wanted “great” beer. (Americans didn’t even really know what a “great” beer was, but we’d heard all about the German purity laws and Oktoberfest and were easily fooled. Not anymore.) But even when my buddies were drinkin’ “great Irish beer”, in the form of Guinness, my mouth and taste buds always told me its name was “mud”.
I HAVE tried a few Smoked Porters, and because I just love all smoke-flavored things, I do enjoy those, especially the one by Stone. The Alaskan Brewing Co. ‘Smoked Porter’ tastes good for about 2 or 3 sips and then I start thinking it’s too heavy on the smoke.
Continued Below...
Part 2:
Delete>>... The only beer I don't care for much is an I.P.A. that's overly bitter. Not big on bitter beers.
You may not like Lagunitas ‘SUCKS’ much. It’s definitely hoppy with 63 I.B.U. and it’s not just an IPA, but apparently a Double IPA. I DO like hoppy and bitter beers, BUT I definitely have my limit! I actually like Lagunitas ‘Hop Stoopid’ with 100 I.B.U. But it’s brewed with some balance, so I don’t feel like I’m chewing on raw hops. (The Hoppy/Bitterish aftertaste of ‘Sucks’ seems almost stronger to me than it does in ‘Hop Stoopid’, despite the disparity in I.B.U.
There are some guys, I’m convinced, who think that loving (or at least saying they love) the hoppiest, most bitter beer possible is like some kind of machismo badge of honor. It’s like those guys who say they want the hottest chili pepper imaginable. They can be standing there sweating, snot running down their nose, eyes watering all over their face, and swear that they “love” that hot pepper. Of course, any flavor is completely obliterated by the all-consuming heat of the thing. I love hot, spicy peppers but, again, there’s a limit.
I think that “macho chili pepper” façade sometimes carries over into hoppy/bitter beer. I once bought an expensive 4-pack of Sierra Nevada’s ‘Hoptimum’. That too is 100 I.B.U., but there’s simply no freakin’ balance to it; it was like chewing on hops – absolutely horrible – UNDRINKABLE! (I drank it anyway, because it was expensive and 10+% ABV, damn it! But I had to steel myself in preparation for every next sip!) I suppose it’s possible, but I find it hard to believe that ANYONE really enjoys ‘Hoptimum’. I think it’s more a matter of: “REAL MEN, like me, drink undrinkably bitter beer!”
And I’ve had a couple other “hop bombs” that were all hop and no balance. That’s not what I call a good beer. ‘Hop Stoopid’ and ‘Sucks’ are probably about my limit.
Continued Below...
Part 3:
Delete>>... ‘Fat Tire’ and ‘Stella Artois’ - I wouldn't kick it out of bed ... but you won't find me going out of my way to get it.
Ahhh. We pretty much agree on that too then. I think of ‘Fat Tire’ as almost another Samuel Adams ‘Boston Lager’ – light, refreshing, mowing-the-lawn beer with just enough aftertaste to rise above the standard mass-produced American yellowed water. Of course, I won’t be drinking Samuel Adams again, but if someone gave me a ‘Fat Tire’, I’d thank them and drink it down.
‘Stella Artois’ I’ve only had a couple times (my Sister likes it). It reminded me of a somewhat more subtle (slightly less skunky) version of Pilsner Urquell. And there was a time (namely, 1988 and for a few more years) when Pilsner Urquell was my favorite beer. A friend and coworker turned me onto it, and I thought it was a massive step up from the Miller High Life I used to drink.
But again, that was before all these Craft Beers came along, pickings were slim, and I was just beginning to discover another liquid world. By 1992, I was really beginning to explore some of the (then, not always readily available) micro-brews. On payday, I’d splurge and buy maybe 3 bottles of something new and exotic, along with my standard 6-pack of Miller for the weekend. But with each paycheck, I was discovering 2 to 4 new beers and starting to learn to differentiate between them – hop-forward or malt-centered, etc.
>>... As you can tell by my summer beer question, I've been itching to find some good new brews, but it's hard to justify buying a 6 pack just to try 1 beer.
Definitely! Many times I’ve forked over money for a 6-pack of something new, only to take one sip and think: Damn! I’ve got five more of these to drink before I can experiment again.
Then, when I discovered ‘Total Wine & More’ and ‘BevMo’ (got a ‘BevMo’ nearby?), with a huge selection of single beers, experimenting became a lot less stressful on my wallet. If you get a stinker, you don’t feel so bad knowing it’s just one 12-ounce bottle that you’ll never buy again.
Well, I should get something new about beer posted on my blog tomorrow night after work. I think you’ll find it interesting. And I needed to get something else posted before the next BOTB blog bit anyway.
~ D-FensDogg
‘Loyal American Underground’
POSTSCRIPT:
DeleteHey, I also meant to tell you that I liked the short story you posted today. I was thinking to myself as I read it: How could this guy be seeing all these different types of people from his window? But then I finally reached that point, near the end, when the proverbial lightbulb lit up from a sudden burst of... electrical current.
I just now went back to your blog - I was going to locate the precise moment when the lightbulb lit up in my mind but... now I can't find it. Did you return and make a few edits to it? Wasn't the word "strapped" in there before, toward the bottom?
Confus'Dogg
'Loyal American Hallucination Society'
I am certain: you are already in Heaven: just continue to realize it. I think your personal spiritual slogan/motto/credo is one of the most correct things you've ever said. But, as you indicate, it was a revelation.
ReplyDeleteTHIS life is the Cosmic Basement.
Your mention of the beautiful and deep lyric, and your aside to me - has me wondering: were you just pointing it out to me because our most recent (ha ha) emails discuss lyrics? Or were you hoping I'd possibly extract a substantive and perhaps tangential meaning there?
SHEBOYGANBOY SIX ~
DeleteYou remember the recent Email where I said that I think our spiritual views are closer than the semantics make them appear?
Well... my personal spiritual slogan, I know, is right up your alley, Bro. And I believe it 100%.
However... "THIS life is the Cosmic Basement"? Actually, I agree with that also to a large but not complete extent. Yeah, Brother, we are in a fallen state and THIS life is the Cosmic Basement... with just enough Carrot dangled in front of us to keep us believing in something better and to keep us moving toward it.
But I also believe that there is a nonphysical, purely spiritual realm to the Cosmic Basement that is even WORSE than the physical hell here.
In short, in the same way that I believe Heaven is a State of Consciousness aligned with God's Mind (I KNOW you love that word "mind"), I also believe that there's a State of Consciousness even more "SEEMINGLY" removed from the Mind of God than what we find in the worst of the worst transgressors here on Earth. (In other words, when Hitler's body decayed, his consciousness probably occupied the lowest part of the Cosmic Basement.)
The Good News is (as I'm sure you'll agree), neither THIS life nor the consciousness in the lowest part of the Cosmic Basement is reality. Only what God created is Real (capital "R"), and everything God created (as His Book tells us) is good. And that's where your spiritual views and mine converge again, after diverging temporarily.
Hey, SBB-6, I am so far behind on sleep right now that I'm about as sharp as a balloon. I'm afraid your entire last paragraph regarding "lyrics" went right over my head. Uhm... wanna try that again? I know it's ME, not you.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Stevie,
ReplyDeleteI used to own this on cd in the 90's. Got stolen, which only means the person who stole it definitely needed it more than me.
Marc
BR'ER MARC ~
DeleteWell, that's certainly a spiritually mature way of looking at that.
By the way, one day last week my Brother asked me a certain Biblical question. I answered him and then went to show him the answer more clearly illustrated in Chuck Missler's book 'Learn The Bible In 24 Hours'. I was confused for several minutes when I couldn't locate my copy of the book, but then... I remembered the loan.
Any chance that'll be finding it's way back to me fairly soon, Bro? (Pssst. No P.O. Box anymore, so home address only. Thanks.)
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
Ya, I've been busy and the book is moving slow. I'll send it back soon.
ReplyDeleteNo problem at all, my Brother. And no rush either. Just please don't forget where ya got it.
DeleteThe funny thing is that I was able to show Brother Nappy the same info in the book 'Armageddon' by Grant Jeffrey. In other words, all these Christian writers are stealing from each other. ...in the name of the Holy Dollar.
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'
ReplyDeleteStephen,
Yes they are. Yet, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Paul said it in the new testament that he didn't care if those who proclaimed Christ did it to eat at him in prison (my summary of the text obviously). As long as truth is getting out there, and Christ is preached more will be saved. Heck, I even heard Joel Osteen get it right the other night, and I'm NOT a big fan of TV evangelists. But if that sermon got someone saved, or helped someone, great. To God be the glory. Were really all just ripping off our Holy Father anyway, all truth originates from him. But ya, they should give each other credit, and quote their sources (none of us figure it all out on our own). God is the originator of truth and leading people to the truth via his word, revelation, or someone else. That being said, I'm sure some today are spreading good truth that is helping people for the wrong reasons. They might be saved, but they will have to answer face that before the ultimate King of Kings and Lord of Lords. I have my own stupid crap I have to watch on the big screen, so I'm gonna let our Father and Our Lord deal with that.
As always I love ya brother.
Br'er Marc
BR'ER MARC ~
DeleteYeah, I pretty much agree. The primary thing is that The Truth is being disseminated. But really, they all ought to quote their sources.
In fact, that particular piece of information I've alluded to, I also found in a THIRD Christian writer's book which I read many years ago but no longer own. And the funny thing is... I happen to know who FIRST conceived of that information, and it wasn't ANY of the three Christian writers mentioned here. And yet, I'm not sure that any of the three quoted the original source. (Missler may have, but I don't recall for certain.)
~ D-FensDogg
'Loyal American Underground'